Kurt Busiek Interview

Really grateful to Kurt Busiek for doing this. Be sure to support him and read his work.

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@capes_kid: Who is your favorite character in the this volume of Astro City and why?

Kurt Busiek: We’re talking about LIFE IN THE BIG CITY, right?

I don’t really think in terms of “favorite characters.” I’m telling stories, and the joy of it is writing the right characters for those stories. When people ask me who my favorite ASTRO CITY character is, I used to say Quarrel, though I didn’t really get to show people why until we did the story in the LOVERS QUARREL volume.

But in BIG CITY, I really enjoyed getting to write such a variety of characters, and Samaritan, Elliot Mills, Crackerjack, Quarrel, Eyes Eisenstein, Mr. Bridwell and others were all a lot of fun to write, but it’s the story more than the character, that make them fun.

Over time, I think I might say that the characters who were the most fun to write were Steeljack, Martha Sullivan and maybe Marta Dobrescu — their voices just come to me naturally, and it’s a great pleasure to write from inside their heads.

@capes_kid: What was the inspiration for the character "Jack-in-the-Box"?

Kurt Busiek: In ASTRO CITY, at least at the start, we tried to build characters who were archetypes. Samaritan isn’t Superman — you could not swap him into a Superman story without it taking a very different direction — but he’s a “savior” type hero. Winged Victory is a feminist hero, the Confessor is a nighttime crimefighter, and so on. And Jack-in-the-Box fits the archetype I think of as “urban trickster.”

He’s flippant, acrobatic, irreverent — a crimefighter but also a clown, holding his foes up to ridicule. There’s Spider-Man to that, but also Robin Hood, the Creeper and others.

The story in ASTRO CITY 3 was originally conceived as a Spider-Man story, in fact, but the editor I pitched it to told me that we couldn’t leave someone out there in the Marvel Universe knowing Spidey’s secret ID, so he’d have to die at the end, and I didn’t want to do that. So I saved the story, and once we created our own trickster-hero for ASTRO CITY, I realized we could modify the story and use it there.

@capes_kid: How did you get to working with Alex Ross, and what is that like?

Kurt Busiek: Alex is enormously talented, of course, and has terrific craftsmanship, but the thing I keep reacting to is that he’s very smart. He wants to talk things through, wants to come at the work from a position of not just making gorgeous images, but of understanding why they work and what they’re saying about the characters and the situation.

So with Alex, we may end up talking for a long time about some seemingly minor element or aspect of things, so that we’ve really unpacked the concepts underneath what he’s doing and are on the same page as to how to tackle them. And if he’s done a sketch and I don’t think it works (which, I’ll admit, is very rare), then he’s perfectly open to talking it over and finding a new approach. He’s smart, he’s very professional, he’s dedicated to doing what he does as well as he possibly can.

I first worked with Alex back when I was edited a science-fiction anthology series for Marvel called OPEN SPACE. Alex had done TERMINATOR: THE BURNING EARTH for Now Comics, and we thought he’d be a great choice for one of our stories. The series got canceled before Alex’s story appeared (but it got printed years later, by Wizard), but it put Alex and me in touch, and it led to our doing MARVELS together. So when I wanted to do ASTRO CITY, I asked Alex if he’d join in, and we’ve been working together on it ever since.

@capes_kid: Why did Astro City change publishers so many times?

Kurt Busiek: It didn’t, really. It was the publisher that changed around it, more or less.

We started out at Image and did those first six issues. Then we went on hiatus, because we were slipping on the schedule and wanted to catch up some — and it was also getting hard to finance the book, because the profits wren’t really starting to come in yet. But, like, the day after we announced we were going on hiatus, we started getting calls from publishers who wanted to fund and publish the book, which was very flattering.

We wound up going with Homage Comics, which was owned and run by Jim Lee, who was one of the Image partners, so it didn’t really seem like a major move. And then…

…first, if I remember correctly, the Homage imprint, which was originally part of Jim’s overall publishing company but not part of Image, moved into Image alongside Wildstorm. So we were back at Image.

Then Jim sold Wildstorm (and Homage) to DC, so we moved to DC — but we were still dealing with the Wildstorm side of things, and Wildstorm became the overall imprint name, so we were part of Wildstorm/DC rather than Homage/Image. There were some other changes — at one point we were in the Wildstorm Signature imprint, for instance — but it was still the same deal we’d signed with Jim back when it was Homage. The names changed around us, but the people didn’t.

In there somewhere, we did one issue as a promo book with Wizard, but that was a side thing, not a publisher change.

And eventually, the Wildstorm imprint got shut down at DC, and we moved to Vertigo. But by this point Jim was co-publisher of DC, I think, so we were still working with Jim, just through a different imprint name.

And now, Vertigo’s closed down (I swear it wasn’t anything we did) and when we next have new ASTRO CITY material out, it’ll be under some other name.

But honestly, all we did was do 6 issues at Image, then sign a deal with Jim. Everything else that’s happened has been the publisher either being sold with us still inside it, or them moving us around to new imprint names.

@capes_kid: When I originally read issue 4 I thought that the internal struggle it portrayed was between the characters family's culture versus that of the big city's. However on a reread it felt moreso like it was specifically addressing symbols that people place faith in versus superheroes. Can you elaborate on what exactly you were going for with that issue and your takes on those dynamics?

Kurt Busiek: That story was an interesting struggle. What I wanted to do, at first, was a story about protection and power — that in one world, Marta has the skills and knowledge to protect herself, and in the other she has to depend on superheroes to do it for her. So in the end she goes back to the place where she can wield the power for herself — the place where she does her own protecting, rather than being a bystander or victim that has to depend on the (not always dependable) superheroes.

But, well, as I wrote it I discovered we were in conflict with the American monolith, which says you leave home and conquer new territory, and if you have difficulties you surmount them and thrive in this new frontier, rather than going back home.

So looked one way, Marta’s story is one of her realizing that she has more power in Shadow Hill, and if she’s going to stand on her own as an independent woman, that’s where she can best do it. And on the other hand, to a lot of readers it feels like a defeat, that she’s giving up on the new frontier and returning to her overbearing mother’s control.

We put in a couple of lines that indicated that no, she’s not going to marry the man her mother wants her to, she’s going to stay independent, but the issue still felt like it was struggling between two poles. To some readers, her asserting her own power made her the victor, and to some, returning to her parents’ world was a loss, a failure.

I think that tension between those two aspects is why we won the Eisner that year for Best Single Issue — both ideas work, but they’re in conflict with each other, which gives the story a depth and resonance we hadn’t intended.

Anyway, that’s why, more recently, we revisited Marta, to see that she had built her own life on Shadow Hill, hadn’t done what he mother wanted, but used her cultural power to make herself independent and secure — and still managed to deal with the regular city successfully as well.

@capes_kid: In the preface to Life in the Big City you allude to being tired of superhero "deconstructions" and that being part of what led you to write your "reconstructions". What were some specific influences (positive and negative) that led you to think this way. Furthermore, is your problem with deconstruction media the sentiments behind them or were you tired of their prevalence?

Kurt Busiek: I don’t know that I’d say “tired of” or “problem with” — I think we’d seen a number of very well-done deconstructive works, like WATCHMEN and DARK KNIGHT, and there were a lot of people imitating those approaches, and I just thought it felt like half the job. As I noted in that intro, I think the purpose of deconstruction, of taking something apart, is to see how it works. So then you can put it back together again even better, because now you know more.

So it wasn’t the idea of deconstruction that I was reacting to, but the fact that so many people seemed content to stop there, to take apart the toys and leave them disassembled and broken on the floor. That’s the part that got tiring. So I wanted to pick up the pieces, put them back together again and say “Look what we can do now, now that we know this stuff!” And I think Alan Moore, at least, had a similar impulse, in doing work like SUPREME and TOM STRONG and others.

And no offense meant, but I don’t want to name names of stuff that I thought were bad examples — I think the principle is clear and I don’t want to point at work by colleagues and say “Bah! Not good!” I’d rather just focus on what we can do through that rebuilding.

@capes_kid: Realistically speaking, do you think superheroes could legitimately reach a place where they fill the same symbolic niche as religion, even if on an emotional level rather than a physical one? Should they reach this position at all?

Kurt Busiek: I think stories, at heart, have emotional power, and superhero stories can use that power as well and as fully as mystery stories or romance or any other genre. But I don’t think religion is specifically about the supernatural — that’s just a big metaphor we used to get at underlying moral or ethical or cultural issues. So the fact that superheroes can fly around and break things and so can the Greek gods or the Norse gods or whoever isn’t something that’s going to make them religious figures. It’s things like how Spider-Man represents the idea that all of us have power, to one degree or another, and we should use that power responsibly.

But that kind of message can be carried by stories that don’t have superpowers people in them, too. So I don’t think superheroes are going to fill the niche of religion any more than STAR WARS or BREAKING BAD. And particularly not while most of these things are owned by corporations. Religious beliefs got shaped by culture, not by corporations. Or should be, at any rate.

So I’m happy with superhero stories just being stories, with all the potential power that entails.

@capes_kid: I found your version of Superman is definitively human, in a way that reminded me of a Grant Morrison quote: "American writers often say they find it difficult to write Superman. They say he’s too powerful; you can’t give him problems But Superman is a metaphor. For me, Superman has the same problems we do, but on a Paul Bunyan scale. If Superman walks the dog, he walks it around the asteroid belt because it can fly in space. When Superman’s relatives visit, they come from the 31st century and bring some hellish monster conqueror from the future. But it’s still a story about your relatives visiting." What's your opinion of this?

Kurt Busiek: I think that makes a lot of sense. I didn’t really “get” Superman until I wrote SUPERMAN: SECRET IDENTITY, where the Superman character was a metaphor for various stages in a human life. Once I’d tapped into that, writing regular Superman all of a sudden made more sense.

And when I wrote SUPERMAN, I’d find myself having Superman doing the equivalent of going for a walk to clear his head and think about stuff, but I’d have him sitting on the Moon, or walking across the floor of the Atlantic Ocean. Just the kind of metaphor Grant is calling out here.

So yeah, that works for me.

@capes_kid: Do you think there are any boundaries when adapting a character for a new work?

Kurt Busiek: I’m not sure I know what the question means. There can be boundaries, sure — if I’m adapting Superman from the comics into a novel, the boundaries are going to be “What will DC Comics allow me to do?” Because they own Superman and they get to make the rules.

But if I’m adapting, say, Dracula or Hercules into comics, and it’s a creator-owned book, the boundaries are “What do I think works well?” Because no one owns those guys any more (or, to look at it another way, we all do), so it’s up to one’s own creative judgment.

Ultimately, the boundaries are “Make it good.” But that’s highly subjective, so how much of a boundary is it, really?

@capes_kid: Do you think you can legitimately compartmentalize certain characters and treat them as if they definitively hold specific traits when dozens of authors each with their own visions have written them in different ways over decades?

Kurt Busiek: I think you have to. The fact that someone else may disagree with your interpretation and write them differently isn’t a a good reason to not have an interpretation. If I’m writing, say, the Flash, I’m going to write him as I understand him from decades of reading FLASH stories.

My sense of the character comes from those dozens of writers, sure, but I’ve got to treat the traits I see in him as real, in order to do the job. Other writers may see other things, and they’ll need to treat those traits as real, too. Because we have to write the characters as if they’re well- crafted, consistent characters. Even if there are stories that don’t quite fit those traits.

@capes_kid: Have you ever had a creator talk to you about about your depiction of one of their characters?

Kurt Busiek: In the sense that, say, Stan Lee called me up to tell me he loved MARVELS, sure. Or that I wrote SHADOWHAWK and others while in contact with the people who’d created them. But no one’s ever told me, “Bah! You got my character all wrong!” They may well have thought so, but they didn’t tell me so.

@capes_kid: Is there any (non-comic) superhero media that you're looking forward to?

Kurt Busiek: Sure. I like most of the Marvel movies, and I look forward to those. And I’m looking forward to the upcoming Wonder Woman movie because I liked the last one.

@capes_kid: Whats the best currently ongoing series in your opinion?

Kurt Busiek: Oh, I don’t know. I don’t really rank things like that, just whether I like them or not. And I’m not up on a lot of what’s coming out these days.

But I’m a big fan of USAGI YOJIMBO and RAGNAROK and CRIMINAL, and PAPER GIRLS was great, but it recently finished up. I’ve got the first TPB of ONCE AND FUTURE on my nightstand, and I’m really liking that.

But I’d be lousy at picking one “best.” I’d have a different thought tomorrow.

@capes_kid: Who are your favorite comic book creators of all time?

Kurt Busiek: Again, any list I give you today wold be different tomorrow. But Jack Kirby and Milton Caniff and Leonard Starr and Neil Gaiman and Mark Buckingham and Rumiko Takahashi and lots of others, depending on my mood and the time of day.

@capes_kid: If you could work on any superhero with no editorial interference, what would you write?

Kurt Busiek: Right now, today, probably Wonder Woman. But the idea of having access to, say, the complete sweep of the Superman legend, and being able to use any and all of it to make new stories, that would have enormous appeal, too.

Assuming we’re not talking about my own superheroes, which I can already do without editorial interference!

@capes_kid: If you could handpick any creator in the industry that you haven't collaborated with yet for a project, who would it be and why?

Kurt Busiek: That, again, would be too long a list to narrow down to one person.

I mean, there’s a couple of projects I’d love to do with Dan Panosian, because he’s a brilliant storyteller and draws these very visceral, energetic characters with a lot of emotional power. And there’s a project I’d love to do with J.H. Williams III, because he’d bring amazing texture and style and elegant mystery to it. And Ramon K. Perez (though I just curated a MARVELS SNAPSHOTS he drew, so maybe I can’t list him) and Fiona Staples and Nathan Fox and Mark Buckingham and Amanda Conner and Claire Wendling and so many more...

@capes_kid: What do you think of the comments Martin Scorsese made about the Marvel Cinematic Universe movies and do you think it holds any water?

Kurt Busiek: I think he’s absolutely entitled to his option, and I think he’s got a point about how thrill- ride SFX franchises have been kind of taking over the movie screens, leaving less room for more human drama, which I love too. But TV’s seen a huge upswing in good human drama, so maybe there are outlets for it even if they’re changing from what he thinks of as the ideal format.

But sure, I think he had a point, and I don’t expect him to like all the same stuff I do anyway. And at the same time, when BLACK WIDOW comes out at my local multiplex (if the coronavirus ever lets it), I’ll be there to watch it...

@capes_kid: Lately I've been people credit the Japanese comic industry's prevalence in the West to more creative control and less reliance on political commentary than their Western counterparts. Do you think this has any merit?

Kurt Busiek: I don’t know enough about the manga industry, but I bet they have plenty of political elements — they may just not be what we recognize easily as references. But I’m not really the guy to analyze the manga industry in the US at present. I’m not paying enough attention.

@capes_kid: A fairly common opinion I've been seeing lately is a comparison between superheroes and ancient myth, that they are a parallel to Greek gods. Do you think there's any merit in this?

Kurt Busiek: They’re both stories of superhuman beings driven by largely-human drives, so it’s easy to see parallels. But that’s mostly about how they work as metaphors. I don’t think superheroes are a belief system — they’re fantasy stories, often carefully tailored for commercial value rather than getting at what anyone thinks are truths about the universe or anything.

But superhero stories — like a lot of Westerns or other adventure stories — are built out of the same storytelling power of the tales of gods and heroes. So we’re tapping into the same underlying ideas for the power of the stories. We just recognize them as fiction, these days.

@capes_kid: If you had to recommend a comic to someone who liked Astro City what would it be?

Kurt Busiek: I guess I’d start with SUPERMAN: SECRET IDENTITY and MARVELS. And I might point at FABLES and SANDMAN and SAGA and LOCKE & KEY. But I tend to avoid books that are described as “like ASTRO CITY,” because I don’t want to be influenced by them. So when it comes to those, I may just not have read them.